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SteveL Captivebred Communist
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Joined: 30 Apr 2006 Posts: 1531 Location: Cov
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Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 5:03 pm Post subject: |
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Scott W wrote: | SteveL wrote: | The only time i would euthanize would be if the animal was in obvious discomfort ..Although Snakes tend to heal rather fast if theres any accidents etc .
I was reading on a U.S board about certain big breeders who freeze there jag siblings rather than put them into circulation ,For me that is wrong !why breed them if your going to select them for looks alone then kill off healthy snakes ?!?.
Some snakes are Poor feeders due to being small sized to begin with then the are only picky because you tend to have to offer then bits of prey when they are probably programmed to take live full items ..
there all good to breed from as long as theres no other obvious problems IMO
so for me it has to be try to preserve life ! ![Cool](images/smiles/icon_cool.gif) |
Steve, out of interest do you think snakes should be treated any different to other animals in this respect? (not as a food item but as a 'pet' type animal) |
I dont diferenciate between pets we bring into this world Scott..
i hate to admit this but it does my head in the amount of dogs destroyed daily by the rspca etc ,for no reason other than they are unloved and unwanted etc etc _________________
jezz wrote: | I dont understand SteveL's sarcasm dohhh |
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Lynne ___________
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Joined: 30 Jul 2007 Posts: 8265 Location: Kincardine-on-Forth
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Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 5:22 pm Post subject: |
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Tea wrote: | I'm not a breeder but my view on this subject is a simple one really...
First of all, as much as I advocate natural selection and letting evolution take its course, the line between what is acceptable and what isn't has become blurry over the years of humans playing god with both its own species and the animals it interferes with. With this in mind, we have halted our own natural selection process and that of other animals by providing healthcare and veterinary services therefore, why should we not apply this theory to the herps we keep within this hobby as well? I believe, if we're going to screw around with nature so much and produce animals that are for our own pleasure, aesthetically, the whole natural selection excuse for culling is a bit of a weak one.
Secondly, I would have thought that, as a responsible breeder, anyone expecting clutches of eggs will have made sure they have adequate space and resources to support the resulting babies. With this in mind, the only real reason for culling, in my opinion, would be if babies are born with debilitating birth defects. If the welfare of the snakes is as high a priority as it should be then breeders should be willing to give the weaker babies a chance too.
Like I said though, I am not a breeder so I don't know the ins and outs of how these things turn out. All I know is that, by nature, I could never cull anything and so, if I were to breed, which hopefully I will one day in the not too distant future, I'll make damned sure I can support whatever babies may result. The above is just the way I see things ![Smile](images/smiles/icon_smile.gif) |
absolutely, totally agree. _________________
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Dracowoman2 Captivebred Colonel
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Joined: 29 Oct 2007 Posts: 2205 Location: Gwent
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Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 1:15 am Post subject: |
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I believe that EVERY animal should be given a fair chance no matter what the species unless their is an obvious medical validation for ending it's suffering, other than that i don't see the need to cull for any other reason, you breed them you have to take responsibilty for them. I've been known to rescue hedghogs and bunnies out of the middle of the road at 2am on main roads, were they meant to be left there to die or did the road to incroach on their boundary?
I think Lynne owns the perfect example, the little one that she nursed and tube fed and is now feeding well for her, just because Kya didn't have a great start to life there was no reason to give up on her. I have personally sat on my rep room floor in the early hours dropper feeding lfat tail gecko hatchlings, some didn't make it despite my best efforts, but I have one little Amel that is now thriving and looking stunning, despite it's clutch mate getting the same treatment and giving up the fight.
I appreciate that in HUGE collections that kind of attention to each animal may not be possible, but if they are identified early enough could the young not be put into a seperate area (intensive care) so that they are all together and be dealt with on a different day? _________________ www.draco2.co.uk
"Life without animals isn't life, they give much and take little"
Claire |
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Lynne ___________
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Joined: 30 Jul 2007 Posts: 8265 Location: Kincardine-on-Forth
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Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 4:12 am Post subject: |
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thanks claire. to look at her now you would never know the start she had. although her sister nala, is 3 times her size as she has eaten like a bucket since the day i bought her.
when i took kya to the vet i was convinced he was going to advise putting her to sleep. when i went in and he examined her, he asked 'how far did i want to go'. i asked what he meant. he said'well she is a normal, loads of people wont spend the money fixing them cause they can be picked up pretty cheaply'.
i told him i had paid £20 for her, because she was a bad feeder. i also said that it didnt matter what it cost, i wanted her well. as long as she was fighting i was gonna be there too. he said that was all he wanted to hear. i dont see them as 'disposable'. when you buy or breed an animal or reptile, you take responsibility for that reptile. to make it happy, keep it well.
when my rabbit had mixi, it took over a year of intensive nursing, but he is still here digging holes all over the garden.
i think more and more people think this is an easy way to make money. when probably the truth is you will never make money, or not a great amount. that shouldnt be an issue in my opinion.
good thread fraser. _________________
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Scott W Site Admin
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Joined: 15 Apr 2004 Posts: 13355 Location: London, England.
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Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 8:53 am Post subject: |
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SteveL wrote: |
I dont diferenciate between pets we bring into this world Scott..
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I was thinking along the lines of Koi, I'm amazed by the millions of fry that get 'graded' every few weeks and are then killed off if not up to 'spec'.
Could you imagine that with any other living pets? _________________
Please DO NOT pm orders for reptiles, send email instead scott@captivebred.co.uk |
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Central Scotland Reptiles CaptiveBred Addict!
Joined: 20 Feb 2007 Posts: 504 Location: Central Scotland
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Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 10:36 am Post subject: |
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I believe if you are prepared to breed, you should be prepared to put in the hard work in establishing every since hatchling, unless of course if they have a physical deformity that will hinder their quality of life. _________________ Fraser Gilchrist
Central Scotland Reptiles - "Finding Beauty in the Beasts" |
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Lynne ___________
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Joined: 30 Jul 2007 Posts: 8265 Location: Kincardine-on-Forth
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Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 12:00 pm Post subject: |
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Central Scotland Reptiles wrote: | I believe if you are prepared to breed, you should be prepared to put in the hard work in establishing every since hatchling, unless of course if they have a physical deformity that will hinder their quality of life. |
i think if the physical deformity is causing pain, then there really is no choice. but if its just a deformity, that doesnt interfere with eating and doesnt cause pain, then as i said. if i had bred it, then im prepared to keep it for the rest of its life if it couldnt be rehomed.
and scott i agree about the koi. we seem to be making ourselves into some sort off deities. kill this kill that!!!!
i dread to think whats next. _________________
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Central Scotland Reptiles CaptiveBred Addict!
Joined: 20 Feb 2007 Posts: 504 Location: Central Scotland
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Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 12:38 pm Post subject: |
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Oh yeah, i wouldn't play God. I would leave that decision up to my vet!! _________________ Fraser Gilchrist
Central Scotland Reptiles - "Finding Beauty in the Beasts" |
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Lynne ___________
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Joined: 30 Jul 2007 Posts: 8265 Location: Kincardine-on-Forth
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Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 12:55 pm Post subject: |
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Central Scotland Reptiles wrote: | Oh yeah, i wouldn't play God. I would leave that decision up to my vet!! |
well i dont believe in god, and ultimately YOU should make the decision WITH your vet. but not because you cant br bothered looking after them anymore, because they are suffering. when you buy or breed, they are your responsibility. _________________
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Central Scotland Reptiles CaptiveBred Addict!
Joined: 20 Feb 2007 Posts: 504 Location: Central Scotland
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Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 1:27 pm Post subject: |
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Nor do i ( believe in God ) it is just a figure of speech.
The fact that i was at the vet's in the first place would mean i had already tried everything in my power to help the animal. I value the professional opinion of my vet. And if they recommend that the animal be put to sleep then i respect that.
I think most people are the same when it comes to their animals, if they need treatment, regardless of the cost, and regardless of the cost of the animal itself. I think most people would still be prepared to pay for it to get better. _________________ Fraser Gilchrist
Central Scotland Reptiles - "Finding Beauty in the Beasts" |
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