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Jezz
CaptiveBred Addict!
Joined: 03 Dec 2007
Posts: 727
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 Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 11:44 am Post subject: WC? |
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For those of us who totally disagree with WC (perhaps other than for new bloodlines) what do you think about keeping even CB animals?
After a discussion yesterday, it was brought home (pretty hard) that if I didn't like WC's, what am I doing keeping snakes and such at all?
Do you think the CB animals know any different? Do they suffer like (IMO) I always thought WC's would? Infact, do they suffer at all?
For the ones (like me) that will never knowlingly purchase a WC animal and hate the thought of it, are we hipercrits? Does it really make a difference whether the animal has experienced life in the wild yet or not, as we are still taking their freedom?
Comments appreciated, as this one has really got me thinking and considering things differently to before.
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x.Jessie.x
2.1.0 Python Regius
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0.0.1 Lampropeltis getulus californiae
1.0.0 Pantherophis guttata guttata
0.1.0 Eublepharis macularius
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lizard man
Contributing Member
Joined: 02 Feb 2007
Posts: 173
Location: Essex
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| Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 3:42 pm Post subject: |
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I think the main problem is not if the animal has been taken from the wild but the manor in which they are and how they are treated before they reach a reptile shop, and how many reach the stage of being sold. But then you get people stating an animal is wc, giving the impression its something less than a cb animal, i understand some people see buying an animal that was taken from the wild as promoting it, but doesn't that animal deserve as much care as a bred one?
But if the standards of acquiring the animals was raised, making sure only species that are hardy are taken and got treated at the other end for any problems, then maybe it wouldn't be such a bad thing?
On the other hand maybe we should just keep animals that are bred, why strip an animal from its home for our own pleasure and entertainment, we don't do it to people (although we once did, realizing it was wrong this was corrected but at great losses of human life and treatment).
Why should we treat animals any different?
Steve |
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Jezz
CaptiveBred Addict!
Joined: 03 Dec 2007
Posts: 727
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| Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 3:51 pm Post subject: |
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But my point is not WC, but CB.
Are CB animals any different to WC?
Do they deserve to be kept in little 'prisons' anymore than WC?
think that was my point, in less worlds LOL.
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x.Jessie.x
2.1.0 Python Regius
1.0.0 Boa Constrictor Imperator
0.0.1 Lampropeltis getulus californiae
1.0.0 Pantherophis guttata guttata
0.1.0 Eublepharis macularius
0.1.0 Testudo hermanni
0.1.0 Grammostola rosea |
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lizard man
Contributing Member
Joined: 02 Feb 2007
Posts: 173
Location: Essex
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| Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 4:04 pm Post subject: |
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Ahh...Well i wouldn't know any better if i was in a house with no windows or a tv and computer. Im not saying its right but its what we do, but we just manipulate and use things for our pleasure, but then the animal gets good care 
Personally i don't think an animal would have any idea what it is missing. Besides naturally the animal would be struggling to live every day of its life.
A gecko that was taken from the wild could have been eaten by a snake the next week, so hes now a lucky little bugger lol, but that snake misses out on a meal which could be giving vital energy to produce her eggs. |
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lizard man
Contributing Member
Joined: 02 Feb 2007
Posts: 173
Location: Essex
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| Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 4:06 pm Post subject: |
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Reading back i think im bordering my subtopic i seem to have made in my last post lol 
Steve |
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Stuart Marquis
Key Member
Joined: 05 Mar 2006
Posts: 333
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| Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 4:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | But my point is not WC, but CB.
Are CB animals any different to WC?
Do they deserve to be kept in little 'prisons' anymore than WC?
think that was my point, in less worlds LOL. |
You're always going to have a hard time justifying keeping reptiles in captivity if your whole way of thinking is based on the presupposition of "prisons" and confinement against the will of the animal.
CB animals are different from WC ones because they've never been exposed to their natural habitat and probably have a weakened immune system as a result. In many ways the act of cruelty would be to release a CB animal into the wild, not to keep it captive.
Also, with regards to keeping WC in captivity, the main issue I have with it is that I may be introducing a sub-standard animal into my collection (parasites etc). Instead of thinking about it in terms of placing a WC animal into a "prison" why not think of it in terms of giving the snake a small piece of its natural habitat that is parasite and predator free where it can live out the rest of its life with a guaranteed meal and guaranteed safety. As long as you're set-up is suitable then that snake will arguably have an easier life with you than it would out in the wild. If that's cruelty then give me cruelty over kindness any day! |
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SteveL
Captivebred Communist
Joined: 30 Apr 2006
Posts: 1531
Location: Cov
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| Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 4:55 pm Post subject: |
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prisons ? do you actually have any snakes or are you here to stir up some kind of arguments ? <this is just a few observations i have made from your recent posts on this forum and it is not intended to cause any row ...
do you keep a dog in a house(prison) or a budgy in a prison
or anything for that matter?
We are in prisons if you think that way lets face it most of us spend a lot of time in our houses(prisons)
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| jezz wrote: | | I dont understand SteveL's sarcasm dohhh |
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Jezz
CaptiveBred Addict!
Joined: 03 Dec 2007
Posts: 727
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| Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 5:22 pm Post subject: stevel can't see past the end of his nose |
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| SteveL wrote: | prisons ? do you actually have any snakes or are you here to stir up some kind of arguments ? <this is just a few observations i have made from your recent posts on this forum and it is not intended to cause any row ...
do you keep a dog in a house(prison) or a budgy in a prison
or anything for that matter?
We are in prisons if you think that way lets face it most of us spend a lot of time in our houses(prisons)
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Look at my sig..yes I do, and always thought nothing wrong with keeping CB animals.
But a discussion yesterday got me thinking. I always thought it was cruel to take animals from the wild and stick them in tubs/vivs (thats just my opinion) but thought there was nothing much wrong with CB. Now after the discussion yesterday, it got me thinking twice. As an owner of all the reptiles in my sig (and if you read my first post correctly..  ) I was just interested to see what people who are against WC thought and how they would defend themselves against the argument of whether we should keep and reps if we disagree with WC???
Hope that clears it up for you love. Seems from the post's I've read of yours that your the only one here who's trying to stir. I'm just interested in the opinions of like minded REPTILE OWNERS.
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x.Jessie.x
2.1.0 Python Regius
1.0.0 Boa Constrictor Imperator
0.0.1 Lampropeltis getulus californiae
1.0.0 Pantherophis guttata guttata
0.1.0 Eublepharis macularius
0.1.0 Testudo hermanni
0.1.0 Grammostola rosea |
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Jezz
CaptiveBred Addict!
Joined: 03 Dec 2007
Posts: 727
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| Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 5:29 pm Post subject: |
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| SteveL wrote: | | prisons ? do you actually have any snakes or are you here to stir up some kind of arguments ? |
Considering I own a modest collection which I've had for years, and this thread was started (BY ME) to find opinions of people who keep CB animals but are against WC I don't really find why YOUR posting other than your need to stir
If you are against WC's and keep CBs then please go ahead and voice your opinions, if not, go find another thread which isn't going to get to heated for you.
Other than that, anymore opinions anyone?
_________________
x.Jessie.x
2.1.0 Python Regius
1.0.0 Boa Constrictor Imperator
0.0.1 Lampropeltis getulus californiae
1.0.0 Pantherophis guttata guttata
0.1.0 Eublepharis macularius
0.1.0 Testudo hermanni
0.1.0 Grammostola rosea |
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SteveL
Captivebred Communist
Joined: 30 Apr 2006
Posts: 1531
Location: Cov
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| Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 5:30 pm Post subject: Re: stevel can't see past the end of his nose |
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| Jezz wrote: | | SteveL wrote: | prisons ? do you actually have any snakes or are you here to stir up some kind of arguments ? <this is just a few observations i have made from your recent posts on this forum and it is not intended to cause any row ...
do you keep a dog in a house(prison) or a budgy in a prison
or anything for that matter?
We are in prisons if you think that way lets face it most of us spend a lot of time in our houses(prisons)
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Look at my sig..yes I do, and always thought nothing wrong with keeping CB animals.
But a discussion yesterday got me thinking. I always thought it was cruel to take animals from the wild and stick them in tubs/vivs (thats just my opinion) but thought there was nothing much wrong with CB. Now after the discussion yesterday, it got me thinking twice. As an owner of all the reptiles in my sig (and if you read my first post correctly.. ) I was just interested to see what people who are against WC thought and how they would defend themselves against the argument of whether we should keep and reps if we disagree with WC???
Hope that clears it up for you love. Seems from the post's I've read of yours that your the only one here who's trying to stir. I'm just interested in the opinions of like minded REPTILE OWNERS. |
I dont stirr things up i tend to say things how they are
You made the comment about prison ,To me if you feel there in prisons then maybe your in the wrong hobby altogether .The wc subject is an old long winded debate that has been done to death .They will obviously feel a little bit miffed going from the wild to a small plastic tub or whatever..
But then again they do not have the same brain power as MOST of us have so will get over it after they get fed a few times without them having to hunt etc etc
i made no error in the way i ready your post either Icurrently keep 40 odd snakes in prison here 
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| jezz wrote: | | I dont understand SteveL's sarcasm dohhh |
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