Reptile Forum, Reptile Classifieds - CaptiveBred

coachwhip · Contributing Member Joined: 11 Nov 2005 Posts: 109

Yes I agree with you there Dan, mainly because you are trying to cover your outlay on any dead or whatever. I certainly think that CB should be dearer, at least at first anyway. Just some seem to basically get stuff that is worth pence then try to sell CB for loads as its a 'rare' snake in captivity. I bet that these sorts would try to sell racers for over 100, Ok so 3 quid is way too cheap unless you know or trust the new owner (too many chavs to buy em otherwise, then not even bother to feed em).
And yeah that was sort of my point with the royals, its the keep up with the jones's mentality. A new morph has to be dear cause its new, whether its pretty or ugly, hard to breed or easy.

Mind you Having heard some of what you keep Dan I'd quite happily go on waiting lists for some of your snakes.

Mike

NorthernRegius.com · Posted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 9:58 pm Post subject:

NorthernRegius.com · Posted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 10:15 pm Post subject:

Dan · Captivebred Communist Joined: 08 Sep 2005 Posts: 1306

It's nice to have some "foreign blood" in this conversation, it makes for a much broader viewpoint of the hobby with comments from societies further apart.

It's interesting to note that in your first point you refer to morphs. I was, and i ASSume Mike was, talking about breeding rare species. I think the two are completely different subjects (with exceptions).
I personally think the vast majority of morphs on the market are overpriced to a degree we as a hobby should be sad about.
At the end of the day most of the morphs are single generation animals (ie albinos, which are 1 genetic mutation as a pose to albino tigers which are a combination of 2 mutations) and really is as simple as breeding a normal to a normal.
Of course they should cost more (to varying degrees dependant on genetic mutation, ie co-dom, recessive etc etc) and i have NO idea at all how they should be priced.
Those morphs that have combined genetics like the albino tiger retic or bumble bee royal (ball) should show a respectfull price. I'd like to say the combination of what ever morphs are involved but how the combination is worked out again i wouldn't know.

On the other hand however, lol.
I seriously LOVE the idea of having morphs that are set at a far higher level than normal. This gives people something to work for and in essence shows how much experience/knowledge they have in this area.

I suspect this post asks more questions than it gives answers but hey, no-ones perfect!!!
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The future is bright, the future is a net like pattern.................

I'm NOT an expert, so if you don't want to know my opinion don't ask!!

NorthernRegius.com · Posted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 11:47 pm Post subject:

Dan · Captivebred Communist Joined: 08 Sep 2005 Posts: 1306

Wonder if i can create a post that will get you to pick more than 2 points, again Laughing

I think it's fair to say in this context that morphs and localities can come under the same heading, after all they are the same species they just happen to look different.
On a side note, as a point of interest a member of this forum has THE largest collection of definate (as much as you can be) honey island retics. He was going to post on the thread that brought you here but felt he couldn't add anything more at that point. I would suggest you contact him for a chat as he will likely be able to help. I'm not going to say who he is on here as it's up to him whether he advertises the details or not but i am sure he wouldn't mind a PM so let me know if you want to know who he is and i'll pm you his username.

I do love a challenge, i wouldn't have spent so much on retics in the British market and i certainly wouldn't have focussed on the larger animals as a pose to the dwarves if i was in this for the money. The fact is though i would want some extra reward for pushing the limits and achieving something some one else hasn't managed. Is this wrong? Probably, but i think it is also human nature.

As i said, so many questions LOL. Has ANYONE got the answer to all this??
_________________
TFA

The future is bright, the future is a net like pattern.................

I'm NOT an expert, so if you don't want to know my opinion don't ask!!

Rickeezee · Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 7:52 am Post subject:

Its all about supply and demand like most things in life, more in demand higher the price goes. I do also think with the morph culture to a degree there is a lot of one upmanship and keeping up with the Joneses. Not in all cases but I suspect in a lot of cases. If I get a slating for this then fair play, but that is my view.

Recently a post was made regarding a morph that made me feel sick to the pit of my stomach. I will not go into full details, but I felt it was totally crass and made a complete mockery of herpetology. I was quite furious. Hence not posting about it at the time.

I hear what has been said about achieving reward for hard work, I dont have a problem with that.

WC and CB prices. I have mixed feelings about this, WC are required now and then to introduce new bloodlines, many years ago the Yemen Chameleon trade came to a stand still due to over interbreeding etc. prime example.

I do however think that CB should command a higher but realistic price, again this is tied into the hard work aspect. I bet most people selling CB don't ever make much of a profit if any at all. I would suggest that most herpers plough the money back into running costs for their collection.

I would also predict that Panther chameleons will become the new Yemen chameleons. CB Yemens are now selling for 20-35 each. Panther prices are on the way down now also, as more and more people bred them.

As we all know this is not a cheap passion / hobby.

The original question was about beginers herps. I have followed this thread intently and found it highly interesting, nice one Dan. I have serious doubts about the so called more forgiving beginers herps this could just mean herps are kept and are miserable but still survive.

At the end of the day my view is that if the research is correct and advice is taken from experienced keepers then go for whatever herp you want. At the end of the day I beleive we learn best experientially. We will all make mistakes form time to time with the herps that we keep. Again in my view we tend to learn more from the mistakes we make.

If at novice level, and we make a mistake with a forgiving herp, will we realise this, and more importantly learn from it?

Top thread. Very Happy

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peaches · Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 1:07 pm Post subject:

With regards to the pricing of wc and cb. personally I do think cb should be more expensive, not sure to how much but I look at it this way,

If I'm buying a wc there could be alot of problems that go along with that, internal/external parasites, feeding problems, settling etc.

If you work hard to get this wc animal to tip top condition then are able to breed from it, I think the hatchlings should command a fair price why? because if I'm buying a cb bred, I am assuming my animal is healthy, feeding well, so I am paying for that.

Price to me is relavant, if it's the animal I want and the price is 'fair' then I will pay. I'm not going to quibble if it is really what I want.

Thankyou NorthernRegius.com for saying I wasn't rambling, I find it hard some times to say what I mean without babbling on lol Laughing

Rickeezee · Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 2:28 pm Post subject:

Very concise and to the point Peaches! Laughing

You hit another nail on the head, I to if I want a particular animal and meets the requirements am happy to pay a fair price if it's what I really am after.

I would much prefer to pay that bit extra for an animal with some history and from a trusted source as opposed to a herp that is cheap from a dubious unknown source.
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NorthernRegius.com · Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 3:32 pm Post subject:

Rickeezee & Peaches, very good points on CB vs WC! What saddens me with Regius is that while many CH have exactly the same need to be treated for parasites as WC, many first-time owners seem unaware. They see the "captive" part of the equation and think their little python is okay. A buyer should be cautioned, most US pet stores are selling CH not CB.

With that kind of confusion here ALL- every single animal I get in gets checked for parasites & double checked on the sex. I even have animals I get from breeders checked. But then I'm going to breed these animals so I feel I owe it to the animal & the future customer to be absolutely though. I don't know how it is in Europe, but I always caution people in the states to get their animals & initial health check & fecal unless they are buying direct from a breeder.

Aside from getting a clean animal, the advantage of CB being calmer & better adjusted is an advantage. Many species that were thought to be too aggressive (Retics back in the day) have proved excellent captives. IMHO this still equates to the breeder handling & socializing the offspring to some extent. Also the breeder ensures the animal is feeding properly & up past a certain weight, so the extra time spent should reflect a bit higher price.

Dan, sorry if it seemed I was dissecting your posts- was only trying to address specific aspects in order to avoid confusion. I would be quite interested in speaking with someone who has experience with Madu/Honey Islands. Only so much can be gleaned from photos & this particular locale is not widely kept in N. America as yet. It's been an interesting process...

My male Madu is my first effort in obtaining a WC & I've been dependent the person I partnered with connections'; not that he isn't doing all he can- but the more I know the better. Thanks in advance, Deb
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All the Best- Deb
Me: http://www.myspace.com/hardcoreherper
My snakes: www.NorthernRegius.com