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Reptile Forum, Reptile Classifieds - CaptiveBred
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Dan
Captivebred Communist
Joined: 08 Sep 2005
Posts: 1306
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 Posted: Thu Jul 13, 2006 12:34 pm Post subject: |
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Right, let's see if i can explain this properly............
If 1 person in a 100 strong crowd see's the world from a different view he may be classed insane.
If those 99 people then joined a 10000 strong crowd who all see the world in the same view as the first person then the 100 may be classed as insane.
If that makes sense then i can finish on saying.... Perception is everything.
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Peter Parrot
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Joined: 15 Jan 2006
Posts: 5402
Location: Over the bridge
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| Posted: Thu Jul 13, 2006 12:52 pm Post subject: |
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So how many people are on this forum!  
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Rickeezee
Site Moderator
Joined: 18 Nov 2005
Posts: 9249
Location: Kent
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| Posted: Thu Jul 13, 2006 12:54 pm Post subject: |
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A vital point to the perception thing is that if your perception of things around you does not tally with the majority, and you question such inane sheep herding mentality then you are under an awful lot of pressure to conform.
Why, because it can rock the established norm, when one rocks the boat other people get nervous in case they fall in the water and get dragged down under.
Some people do not like their perceptions rocked and will, at all costs, try to prevent themselves feeling insecure, or even more to the point try to prevent themselves questioning their own beliefs. Some people will always live in fear!
In turn they will rebel against those that make them feel this way! Many examples of this around the world always has been always will be.
Oh and I don't keep ducks either.
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Dan
Captivebred Communist
Joined: 08 Sep 2005
Posts: 1306
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| Posted: Thu Jul 13, 2006 5:00 pm Post subject: |
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Not sure where all this duck talk comes from? I don't keep ducks either 
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Peter Parrot
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Joined: 15 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Thu Jul 13, 2006 5:03 pm Post subject: |
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Should be like water off a duck`s back to you by now Dan.  
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YSBRYDOLI POBL, GWELLA LLEOEDD
INSPIRING PEOPLE, IMPROVING PLACES
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peaches
CaptiveBred Addict!
Joined: 16 Mar 2006
Posts: 940
Location: somerset
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| Posted: Thu Jul 13, 2006 5:28 pm Post subject: |
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This is an interesting thread, y'know what I like about this forum, is how a thread can evolve and become something else.
Back to a good starter though, I don't like to reccomend one particular animal over another - it almost makes the 'starter' animal seem throwaway, I know we've touched on that already. But to me, it doesn't show much respect for that species - if you get me 
Alot does come down to the individual, if someone has researched as much as they can about a particular species and know exactly what they're getting into then I think that's a good thing.
Down to the variety of what we feed and people's preferances etc. I know alot of snakes will dine on other snakes in the wild, but my snakes are captive and I will not feed one to another.
Compared to rodents, snakes/lizards are a pretty expensive food, even if you breed your own, still not really cost effective as a regular food item.
Also most of the herp books are American and I love the way they say 'just get an anole' - yeah right, they're not exactly running about out the back  
Anyway I'm rambling and I can't concentrate so I'll leave it there  |
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Xenopus
Contributing Member
Joined: 02 Nov 2005
Posts: 55
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| Posted: Thu Jul 13, 2006 5:45 pm Post subject: |
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I started off keeping insects and other inverts but then I decided I REALLY wanted a chameleon. So I started to research, bought every book going, started reading the internet, the forums, etc. But, overwhelmingly I came up against 'chameleons aren't a good starter lizard, you should get a leo, or a beardie'. Well, to be honest, neither really inspires me and I don't think I'll ever own one, so why should I get that before a chameleon? Made me a bit angry that did. After about 8 months of research (not just you that's obsessive Jan!) we got our baby and he's done really well. He's big, and healthy, and really grumpy, like all good Yemens should be! I spend literally hours just watching him. Since then I have acquired a crestie, which is rapidly turning into a 'starter' gecko. I wouldn't have wanted to do it the other way around - my chameleon was/is my passion and has propelled me forwards into the rest of the herp world.
Also the starter species being more resilient to mistakes doesn't sit well with me - it doesn't seem fair that lots of beardies, leos and cresties have to suffer rather than other reps! Like has been said, nothing should get bad treatment if enough research is done.
Still, there are certainly a lot of morons in this world. |
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Dan
Captivebred Communist
Joined: 08 Sep 2005
Posts: 1306
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| Posted: Thu Jul 13, 2006 7:34 pm Post subject: |
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| peaches wrote: | I know alot of snakes will dine on other snakes in the wild, but my snakes are captive and I will not feed one to another.
Compared to rodents, snakes/lizards are a pretty expensive food, even if you breed your own, still not really cost effective as a regular food item.
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If i may pick out this segment from your post.........
I think the point of bringing the feeding issue up was about what makes us choose the decisions we do. You say you won't feed one snake to another, i'd like to know why though. If you don't feel happy to answer then don't, i'll understand that 
The other point about about food costs is one i discussed elsewhere not so long ago. I have a bit more insight/experience in this area than most as i now keep a snake that feeds entirely on lizards (doesn't seem to like frogs).
My arguement was simple but essentially boiled down to that same old answer of perception.
To have a snake or even a lizard you will pay up to £2.50 ish a week for food (less for many snakes). While i am waiting for my "food" order to arrive i am paying up to £10 a week to keep this snake well fed.
At first glance this seems a lot, but, compare this to the price of a dog. I would guess the VAST majority of us don't buy the very best dog food available so this is more of a figures exercise than anything, even still it's interesting.
To feed a dog a bag of Eukanuba (i think i used this as an example) which lasts me approx 6 weeks would cost £46 ish. This figure in comparison of the figure of UP TO £40 a month for my snake really isn't that different and i would guess all in all actually ends up being pretty close.
So, after all that waffling she is more expensive than other snakes but really is no more expensive than a dog which at the skin and bones of it all is the same and just a pet at the end of the day.
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The future is bright, the future is a net like pattern.................
I'm NOT an expert, so if you don't want to know my opinion don't ask!! |
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Mememe
Site Moderator
Joined: 23 Dec 2005
Posts: 2141
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| Posted: Thu Jul 13, 2006 8:08 pm Post subject: |
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Interesting topic.
RE: Starter reptiles.
There aren't really any. However, I feel there are some that are more suited to the captive environment.
Green Iguanas obviously aren't (unless someone who is prepared for the full responsibility of caring for a most likely grumpy and aggressive 6ft tail whipper for the rest of its life), whereas - in comparison - a beardie/leopard/corn is. But I think people always suggest the same stuff - whether the person wants it or not. There should be way more variety.
The whole 'build up to a more delicate herp' thing is wrong IMO.
It only works if you want a a corn aswell as an XXXX. Some people only want XXXX and that is all the space etc they can provide. So why buy a corn that is going to be ignored, neglected and not looked after aswell as an XXXX?
If that makes sense?
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Rickeezee
Site Moderator
Joined: 18 Nov 2005
Posts: 9249
Location: Kent
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| Posted: Thu Jul 13, 2006 8:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Xenopus wrote: | I started off keeping insects and other inverts but then I decided I REALLY wanted a chameleon. So I started to research, bought every book going, started reading the internet, the forums, etc. But, overwhelmingly I came up against 'chameleons aren't a good starter lizard, you should get a leo, or a beardie'. Well, to be honest, neither really inspires me and I don't think I'll ever own one, so why should I get that before a chameleon? Made me a bit angry that did. After about 8 months of research (not just you that's obsessive Jan!) we got our baby and he's done really well. He's big, and healthy, and really grumpy, like all good Yemens should be! I spend literally hours just watching him. Since then I have acquired a crestie, which is rapidly turning into a 'starter' gecko. I wouldn't have wanted to do it the other way around - my chameleon was/is my passion and has propelled me forwards into the rest of the herp world.
Also the starter species being more resilient to mistakes doesn't sit well with me - it doesn't seem fair that lots of beardies, leos and cresties have to suffer rather than other reps! Like has been said, nothing should get bad treatment if enough research is done.
Still, there are certainly a lot of morons in this world. |
Spot on, just proves with the right research it can be done! Top stuff.
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