Reptile Forum, Reptile Classifieds - CaptiveBred

[warhammer]

Another post again that has been spoilt by the typical crowd.
it really does bore me in fact to the extent where i don't even bother looking at the monitor section anymore.

[Sean]

Totally agree Andy!!!

One thing I would like add is why this only seems to happen on the monitor forum? You don't really see it on the other forums on this site.
When SteveC posts pics of his amazing pythons you do not get people jumping down his throat and rightly so, he as some cracking animals all the best to him. Sometimes posting a pic says a thousand words and not everyone as seen clear images of some of these species.

It seems that there is alot of snobbery and jealousy going on here. Lets put a stop to this kind of behavior, it as taken drastic measures from KINGSNAKE.COM to stamp out this disease.

[Sam Sweet]

Oh my, I would hate to see any other forum compared favorably to KS! What goes on there involves a lot of misinformation coupled with gratuitous slurs directed far and wide, but particularly focused on folks with experience and knowledge that the resident Big Cheese cannot match. Any and all posts challenging the religion are deleted as 'abusive', leaving most of the Big Cheese slander that preceded and followed. What a great model system, it's fully Orwellian.

As a recent example, KS readers were informed by their great guru that he knew of black V. salvator as 'V. komaini' in the mid 1960s (see http://forums.kingsnake.com/view.php?id=1439588,1439691). When someone had the audacity to point out that the name komaini dates only from 1987, the post disappeared in minutes and the poster was banned from the forum.

So, Warhammer, is that the sort of forum you want?

[Hugh]

Without wanting to get dragged into any of the pettiness, I personally like finding out anything new about monitor species, no matter how undetailed it is.

Something about a teaser was mentioned. Well, that's a good thing. You very rarely watch a film that you haven't at some point seen a teaser/trailer for. It's what entices you to watch the film.

I'm enticed, and I look forward to learning more when that information is available.

That all sounds rather bitchy, but it is really just meant as a comment on the posts I've just read.

[Sean]

Cheers Hugh,

Yes all I doing is alerting people to the fact that this is happening and naming one of the species concerned. It's the same as reporting to people that there is going to be a moon landing before it as taken place.
Surely people can see the logic in this.

[miffikins]

I'm new on this forum and this thread appears to be just a bit petty! The fact that I came on this forum to avoid such pettyness I'm a bit disappointed.

It is interesting to know anything new with varanids, theres a lot of work goin into phylogentics and stuff at the moment, and its pretty obvious that the people carrying out the work arn't goin to want people shouting about their findings before the research has been published, common sense I would have thought.

This thread seems to be a heads up that some more info about it will be on its way soon. It just seems to me that people are perhaps using it as a chance to have a dig...???

Kate

[Sam Sweet]

There's real information, and there's bragging -- the one is about monitors, the other is about ego. There's no pure distinction, but the outline goes something like this: if you have some direct involvement with the work, discussing it in advance of publication can be regarded as informative; if on the other hand you are peddling 2nd and 3rd hand rumors, it's pretty close to plagiarism.

Speaking for myself, I learn of many things that are in progress via discussions at scientific meetings, through professional reviews of papers submitted for publication, and via conversations with the principals. This is information, but it is not "my" information to divulge. Doing so would be plagiarism if I did not acknowledge the source, and breach of confidence if I did. The internet has greatly complicated problems with information-sharing, as there are a fair few people out there who are just not very ethical, as folks who hit "reply all" often discover to their loss.

There is an excellent current illustration of this involving Philippine monitors, which I'm not going to describe for the reasons above. I acknowledge that hobbyists are in the main simply 'interested' in information, but that information can lead to consequences they have generally not considered, for example the pillaging of newly-recognized species by people with a collections fetish. We see that such people exist nearby.

So, this thread became one about etiquette *and* information.

[Sean]

There you go again taking it down to a personal issue and having a cheap shot. I am not interested in ego as you seem to be and certainly have no interest in olivaceus, mabitang etc and the rest from that part of the world.
In fact I think they are quite ugly and would sooner keep leopard geckos.

Warhammer hit the nail on the head, that it is the typical crowd that ruins it for everyone else, what can't you stand about conflicting opinions?

Its seem none of you ever have a conflicting opinion against each other and always seem to agree with each member of this fine bully brigade. I am certainly glad I am not a drone too

[Sam Sweet]

I'm happy to rest my case on the basis of the evidence you're providing against yourself, Sean, although I was addressing Kate, not you. I'm actually trying to educate other people.

Kate, when you sit in your home in the UK and read posts on this forum, at about the same time the same screen could well be being read by, let's say, a professional animal smuggler in Malaysia, importers in Japan and Holland, and a bunch of collectors spread hither and yon. Cell phones light up, and within a day or two some animal buyer is on an Indonesian ferry, or some tourists arrive in Perth and rent a car. That's one kind of problem (or a great feature of instant communication, depending on your outlook).

On the other hand, some poor innocent fella is sitting at his computer in Darwin, and in the far back of his mind rests the idea that the paper he wrote a year ago, based on a few months of field and lab work, ought to be appearing in print in the next couple of months. He gets an e-mail asking if he's heard of this new species Varanus whoopi from up his way, and discovers that someone has posted a few pictures and details on a website. Maybe they're even his pictures, but there's no indication in the post whose work is being pirated.

The point is that if even a few people think that either scenario is OK, it's a problem.