Reptile Forum, Reptile Classifieds - CaptiveBred

[Insectsunlimited]

I know exactly what you mean. With Morio`s, it is not an EXACT science. The nearer to 90d F, the quicker they`ll be. You can have ALL the conditions exactly how they want it to be but it doesn`t mean they`ll breed right away. Like Cass said, they burrowed into polystyrene to "get safe" & covered. They have a strong instinctive urge to breed the way they always have... INSIDE damp rotting logs & they`re not gonna be fobbed off with what we offer them. From "beetle" to "eggs", I haven`t got a clue on times, nor incubation times. Eggs are too small to see, I don`t know how many they lay or how long before they do. Ask anyone who breeds beetles & they won`t know a thing about them (unless they are an anorak). This is because they live & breed... out of sight of us. ....BUT, as Rick said, they take ages & there`s nothing we can do to speed them up. THEY ARE IN NO HURRY... & they are not going anywhere. Average life of a Stag beetle grub, is between 5 & 8 years BEFORE it morphs into a chrysalis. It can then spend up to 2 years before they feel like pupating into the FULL BLOWN beetle. As a beetle, they live for a few weeks. They don`t really make the best live-food to breed.???. In the past, I`ve kept them in moist peat, I`ve kept them in leaf litter, I`ve kept them in bran, I`ve kept them in porridge (dry, of course). I even have a bin at the moment full of damp, rotting slices of bread with them in. This summer I chopped down a dead cherry tree for a neighbour & cut the trunk into 12" (300mm) slices & all summer they have been immersed in 2 gallon buckets of water all round my yard. This will give me their IDEAL breeding conditions but will it make them any quicker... I doubt it... It`s a beetle... & it`s not in a hurry. Regards... Dave.

P.S. Is there anyone out there who claims to be a "super-beetle-breeder" & has hidden potions or ways to breed quicker. I`m not often wrong but I like constructive criticism. Who breeds say, fruit beetles & has noticed "something they do" that the rest of us haven`t. It may be put to use on other species & help this lack of knowledge or lack of success... or just lack of interest. They may look good as beetles but they are a boring (no puns) insect to breed.
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Dave Messer @ Insectsunlimited.

It may be the early bird that gets the worm but it`s the 2nd mouse that gets the cheese.

[mark_w]

Rick, I use cheap plastic 'sample' pots, that I picked up on line. The best thing to use is prob to divide plastic trays into squares using dividers, like those tool box/fishing tackle trays, if you can build/find them.

Dave, I know what you are saying, and we do get carried away sometimes, but I'm sure that most animals that eat mealworms in the wild eat them as part of a varied diet. Also, mealworms fed a varied diet are definately more nutritious than those fed on bran alone. Ask any commercial leopard gecko breeder...

Cheers,
Mark.

[Insectsunlimited]

Hiya Mark, I agree with all you say but my point is that an insect moulds itself, through evolution to a food source that it`s body can absorb as much as it needs to live a healthy life & reproduce. If there is something in their diet that it doesn`t need... it will just go straight on through... & back to mother earth where there will be something else that will make use of it. It`s a balance out there (albeit, a shaky one) & EVERYTHING plays it`s own small part.
Just to pull it all apart, Tenebrio (standard mealworm) lives on grain, which is very nutritious... Zoophoba morio (giant mealworm) lives on rotting timber, not as nutritious but at the end of the day a morio is more nutritious than a tenebrio. I`m not arguing with anybody... it`s the insects that repeatedly stop us dead in our tracks when we think we`ve found an answer or a system. You can study something for 20 years & think you know what your doing... & then some 6 legged "thing", 2mm long struts in & blows 20 years hard work in the air. The insect world is more complex than a human brain. We know about 10% of how it works & even less about insects. It`s quite frightening when you look at it from that perspective... & remember, a lot of insects have been on the planet, in their present form, for 20 or 30 MILLION years. We`ve been here less than 10,000 (destructively) & now look at the mess. Rather than modifying the wildlife, we should adjust to them if history is anything to go by... & I bet that`s blown a few minds. Regards... Dave.
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Dave Messer @ Insectsunlimited.

It may be the early bird that gets the worm but it`s the 2nd mouse that gets the cheese.

[peaches]

Right I've got a load more beetles now, I've put them back in the geo for the mo with the rest of the morios, is that alright?

If I just leave them in the tub, with bran, egg box etc...is that enough for them to lay??? (if they feel like it lol)

An idiots guide is what I need
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www.ratsnakefoundation.org

[Scott W]

My giant mealworm colony consists of large contico trays (no lids), I then have a 2" layer of peat, twice a week I give them soaked dog biscuit and NOTHING else. Every week or two they get sieved out of that tray and into a fresh tray with new peat.

Beetles are kept the same but have a stack of egg carton for egg laying, this is changed each week, with that old stack going into a new tray, they hatch the following week (ie in with the breeders week 1, week 2 the first eggs start to hatch) and after 14 days the eggs carton is discarded (all the mealworms drop into the peat).
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Please DO NOT pm orders for reptiles, send email instead scott@captivebred.co.uk

[callmechook]

I use bran and oats mixed simply because they are nice and fat breed well and don't smell, water is from cotton wool in a lid so it doesnt spill etc and they seem to last for ages before pupating xxxxxx

[Rickeezee]

I have followed the advice given on the thread and have put some super morio worms in pin pricked film canister size pots half filled with bran, so I shall keep them at 80f (is that bit right?) and see how long they take to pupate.

Last summer I found 3 super morio Beatles wandering about and just shoved them in a small faunarium with wheat bran egg carton and some greens fed to them now and then and they are producing a lot of morios now. Mind you it has taken them forever to do this

Out of interest would half a potato cut end down be enough to provide moisture for mealworms and supermorios? I have found when feeding grated carrot etc to mealies that there is a propensity for them to become damp. They do love the carrot though. Any advice on providing moisture without making the colony damp please, just to note my mealies and morios live in a substrate of wheat bran. thanks.
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www.rickslivefood.co.uk

[Insectsunlimited]

Hiya fella,
Dave here @ Insectsunlimited & 80d F is fine. Look at them about once a fortnight but don`t do anything to them. First, they curl up & occasionally, you will find one has turned into a pupa, take it out & lay it on some bran so when it pupates, it has enough room to dry out without being confined ( sometimes they can dry deformed & end up with "crumpled" wings. If they turn black, they`re dead... chuck em, wash the container out & go back to "part A".
In their natural habitat, the worms eat their way into rotting logs (as opposed to a standard mealworm,(Tenebrio molitar) which lives in "meal"). Unless they have the security of being fully encased in wood (or a dark,small box), they won`t pupate because as a pupa, they cannot defend themselves & are a vulnerable food. You say you did get " a few" beetles. This is unusual but ... it does happen... they must have found a corner where they were not disturbed.
Young worms do take ages. Beetles do take a notoriously long time to hatch... & mature but have surprisingly short lives as an adult (Zoophoba morio... about 6 months). In the case of the Stag Beetle, they stay in their larval state alone for 6 - 8 YEARS & as an adult, they breed at the start of their 2nd year... & die.
Potato is fine... all my raw vegetable scraps & potato peelings go in the morio`s. I keep mine differently to yours. One lot is in leaf mould & veg scraps & the other has logs (that I soaked in buckets for 12 months to start the rotting process) & veg scraps. Both cultures are "damp" all the time. I`m not advocating this is neccesary to be successful but I`m experimenting with all options so I have the answers to peoples questions ... possibly at a later date.
One thing though, they were "designed" to live perfectly adequately on rotting wood & vegetation & the bran is not neccesary. By all means, gut load them before you use them as food but it is not neccessary. Ask anyone who feeds with morio`s & they will say they only use them occasionally cos anything gets fat if they have them regularly. Hope this helps. Regards... Dave
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Dave Messer @ Insectsunlimited.

It may be the early bird that gets the worm but it`s the 2nd mouse that gets the cheese.

[Rickeezee]

Hi Dave good to see you about again. Thanks for the info most helpful. I shall check the potted morios in 2/52.
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www.rickslivefood.co.uk

[Rickeezee]