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zarozinia
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Joined: 25 Nov 2004
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Location: Lost in my own little world
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 Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 1:30 pm Post subject: Beware when buying from-snakesanddragons_uk@yahoo.com |
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snakesanddragons_uk@yahoo.com
I recently bought 4 boiga drapeizii from the above. They arrived in a ghastly state with one dead. Complaints were made but the guy insisted that there was nothing wrong with these snakes, so here is my email to him, which will give you the gist of the situation. A photo will follow and I will update if I receive a reply.
"I have wanted to write to you before now but have held back so as not to write in haste or anger.
To be totally blunt, I am completely disgusted at the state in which you sent the 4 snakes. They arrived in dreadful condition, all emaciated and dehydrated, with one dead. Within 3 days a 2nd one died and the other two died over the following days. In my opinion these snakes never had a chance of surviving, considering the dread full condition they were in.
I know these snakes were in better condition - at least hydrated - two weeks previously as they were observed by a friend of mine*. How they came to be in such a state in a period of 2 weeks is beyond me. They were obviously not kept correctly for that period of time, given how rapidly they deteriorated.
I am utterly dismayed that any shop, dealer or private dealer would even consider couriering snakes in such poor health. I am also extremely annoyed that you saw fit to even sell these snakes, when they were in such a dire state.
I consider my self fairly knowledgeable regarding the boiga species, having studied them and written articles about them as well having husbandry experience. So please do not assume that I do not possess the knowledge or skills to care for this species or point any blame for these poor snakes demise at my door.These snakes were without a doubt the most dehydrated I have ever had the misfortune to encounter. My vet agreed and hence they were commenced on treatment to aid re hydration. None would eat - not surprising considering their condition, so they also received appropriate treatment to restore the balance of electrolytes etc and encourage appetite.
My vet performed a post mortem on the first snake which died and found Dehydration was certainly a contributing factor.
So, I find myself feeling rather annoyed at present, a for the ill treatment/neglect of these poor snakes and secondly at your attempt to conn someone out of money for snakes which had no chance of living - even with someone who is knowledgeable regarding their husbandry and with veterinary care. In fact even when Ive tried to take the time to calm down, I still feel incredibly angry. How can you expect to get away with doing this.
Well I'm afraid its come back round to bite you on the backside this time."
_________________
Cheers Angi
Proud to be a Geordie!
My Images - http://anginelson.deviantart.com/
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zarozinia
CaptiveBred Addict!
Joined: 25 Nov 2004
Posts: 894
Location: Lost in my own little world
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| Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 4:04 pm Post subject: |
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I forgot to add my name
Angi Nelson.
_________________
Cheers Angi
Proud to be a Geordie!
My Images - http://anginelson.deviantart.com/
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garysumpter
CaptiveBred Addict!
Joined: 07 Apr 2006
Posts: 914
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| Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 4:09 pm Post subject: |
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Well done, very well written, thanks for the warning and please keep us posted.
Gary
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Dan
Captivebred Communist
Joined: 08 Sep 2005
Posts: 1306
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| Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 4:26 pm Post subject: |
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Seeing as this is me i had better go read the email!!
I will, of course, comment shortly.
_________________
TFA
The future is bright, the future is a net like pattern.................
I'm NOT an expert, so if you don't want to know my opinion don't ask!! |
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Nerys
Contributing Member
Joined: 18 Oct 2005
Posts: 171
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| Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 4:55 pm Post subject: |
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just to say...
i did see these snakes, well the living ones, the day after they got to angi...
and much though i hate to say this dan.. they did look shot to sh*t..
very thin, and yes, i am aware of a boiga body structure... hugely wrinkled.. very dry skin.. no elasticity in the skin at all.. sunken eyes.. unsteady, or un-co-ordinated movement pattern.
to me, showing classic late stage de-hydration, which i would have thought was not due to 24 shipping procedure..
having seen the pics of the dead one... i couldn't see how it would have gotten so bad overnight either.. it would have had to have been on its last legs when it was packed... or have been packed some days before. i understand that the corpse did smell when it was removed also.
the only snake i have ever had from dan personally was a CB atb, breed by mike *treeboa* he was in a good state bar a small mite problem but it was not a problem
and i was thinking of getting some stuff from the last ad, 'cept he sold it...
but yeah, i did see the boiga angi is talking about, and tbh... they looked like absolute crap to me... sorry..
Nerys |
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goldenburm
Captivebred Colonel
Joined: 12 Sep 2005
Posts: 2109
Location: Chatteris, Cambs
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| Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 5:43 pm Post subject: |
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Oops!
I dont have a lot of time for dan but I did think he had the scruples to at least send out healthy animals, dan is not daft and must have known it would bite him in his backside?
Why not have doen the decent thing and say sorry they aren't right can you wait. I am sure Angi and Pete would have respected the honesty?!?!
Oh well we shall await the deflecting reply from Dan!
Peter
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1.0 striped supersalmon DEAD
0.1 salmon poss TH moonglow DEAD
0.1 Orangasm DH ghost DEAD
1.0 pastel motley DEAD
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1.1 pastel het snow 0.1 LIVING
2.2 albino boas DEAD
0.2 albino ara's DEAD
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zarozinia
CaptiveBred Addict!
Joined: 25 Nov 2004
Posts: 894
Location: Lost in my own little world
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| Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 6:02 pm Post subject: |
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I'm afraid I'm still awaiting a reply Pete
_________________
Cheers Angi
Proud to be a Geordie!
My Images - http://anginelson.deviantart.com/
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zarozinia
CaptiveBred Addict!
Joined: 25 Nov 2004
Posts: 894
Location: Lost in my own little world
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| Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 6:05 pm Post subject: |
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I must add that Dan did refund the money for the dead snake.
_________________
Cheers Angi
Proud to be a Geordie!
My Images - http://anginelson.deviantart.com/
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Dan
Captivebred Communist
Joined: 08 Sep 2005
Posts: 1306
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| Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 6:05 pm Post subject: |
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It's a mammoth folks, take your time and read properly.
It's been a while since anyone has questioned the quality of anything i have sold so bare with me if the following is somewhat disjointed.
I would just like to lay the facts out for all to see before i make any comments one way or another as there are, funnily enough, facts missing from the original post.
On Sunday 17th September at approx 01:00 i dropped off some snakes for Jon Edwards (as he has been named already i will do so again). While with Jon we discussed the overall quality of the animals in my possession as along with the original animals wanted he thought so highly of the animals he bought some more on the spot.
On Monday 18th September i received a phone call from Jon Edwards asking if i would be prepared to sell the remaining 2 pairs of Boiga drapeizi i had to a friend of his for less than i was asking on the net. I enquired as to who would be buying the animals and explained in no uncertain terms would i sell anything to Peter Blake for any less than anyone else. I was informed this was "understandable as many people have a problem with Peter Blake" to which i replied "Yes, i am aware of this". I remember those exact words as i am carefull how i talk about people when i know they are friends. The phone call ended when i agreed that i would sell to Peter for the asking price if he wanted the animals.
Later that morning i received the following email from Peter:
| Quote: | Hi dan
I understand from jon e that u are holding the 2
pairs of drapezei for me,
and that the total would be £280, but you would like
to swap, what r u
interested in,
pete
Pete Blake
Director
Reptile Zone
126-128 Gloucester Rd North
Filton
Bristol
BS34 7BQ
Tel no 0117 969 3013
Fax no 0117 969 3083
Email: sales@reptile-zone.co.uk
Website: www.reptile-zone.co.uk |
To which i replied:
| Quote: | Pete,
Yes, i have 2 pairs of B.drapiezi. I am happy to take
either the cash or a trade for other animals. Anything
i take in trade will only be sold on so it's easiest
if you just forward a stock list.
Thanks
Dan |
This was followed shortly after by the following e-mail:
| Quote: | | I want these snakes dan so don’t sell to anyone else |
The above is the entire content of the e-mail, no header or footer to it.
I replied with the following e-mail:
| Quote: | I need to pop out, i'll be back just after 3 ish.
As long as we can come to some sort of arrangment they
are yours, however as of this moment they are not
yours definately - please remember that before
speaking to others about them.
Dan |
This email was sent because he had already told Nerys Garbett that he had got them from me, as indicated by this email from Nerys:
| Quote: | Psammodynastes Pulverulentus
Are they DWA or non DWA ??
Possibly the boiga too... whats so unusual about the
nigraceps?? And do you
have pics of the others? Not sure how many pairs
you had, I know petes had
two off you!
Ta!
Nerys |
Obviously the earlier part of this email from Nerys is not relevant to this situation. It has been included though so at no point can i be accused of omitting information.
The email to Peter Blake was returned with the following message:
| Quote: | Fine then I will pay cash, it is easier
To which i replied:
Ok, no problems.
I can either see about using a mates overnight TNT
(£25) or i can drop them off myself for delivery costs
at 50p/mile.
I am guessing you like the boiga then?
Once the eggs start hatching i will have a wide range
of species available, including many that you don't
see as WC nevermind CB (eg guanxiensis etc). Obviously
the prices are slightly higher but if you're likely to
be interested let me know.
Along side those i can get many of the WC animals that
aren't usually available.
Thanks
Dan |
I got the following in return:
| Quote: | Its for my partner, but up 2 you wot u want, r u
interested in the snakes I
mentioned, we breed nigriceps here,
pete |
To which i replied:
| Quote: | Pete,
I don't have any normal nigriceps, only ones from the
Cameroon highlands - i'd be suprised if you breed
these as almost no-one has them.
I may be interested in the snakes you mentioned it all
depends on prices. If you resend the list with the
prices then i'll let you know.
Dan |
I then received the following email (this looks out of order but isn't):
| Quote: | | I have a tnt account I can use |
To which i replied with a deep and meaningfull email:
I then received the following:
| Quote: | I have some stunning Surinam babies which are £195,
I will do u a pair for
the snakes, hows that sound |
So i replied with:
| Quote: | Pete,
I desperately don't want to sound offensive here but
that pricing is way to high for me. I can pick up CH
for £100 each - i recently sold a pair of adults for
£350 the pair and i don't have to tell you i made a
nice profit on those otherwise it wouldn't have been
worth doing.
I think cash will be best as i won't pay retail for
anything.
Thanks
Dan |
To which i received:
| Quote: | | Fine send me your address |
I replied with the following:
| Quote: | My address is :
*****
You're welcome to have them collected on any day after
i have received the money.
Thanks
Dan |
I have removed my adress from here, but if people think anything else has been altered i will forward the relevant email to prove innocence. I will not post it on here though.
I got the following next:
| Quote: | | Who do u want the cheque made out to |
To which i replied:
| Quote: | The cheque can be made out to "D.Fryer" - It takes 5
days for cheques to clear in my bank account. If you
send it tomorrow i will have it in my bank probably by
wednesday this week enabling me to send the animals
the following wednesday.
Thanks
Dan |
To which i got:
| Quote: | | Ok can u give me your bank details to pay cash into |
I then simply sent my account details, which will not be published. That is all that was enclosed in my email apart from the words "details:" and "Thanks" and "Dan"
Quite the busy day there as you'll see.
We then heard nothing until receiving an email containing:
| Quote: | Dan
I don’t have a royal bank of Scotland anywhere near
me, is there another
bank I can put monies into
pete |
To which i replied on thursday 21st september:
| Quote: | Hello
you can use my bradford and bingley account
************
***********
Thankyou |
Again, details only pertaining to my bank account have been removed.
We then received:
| Quote: | We don’t have one of them either, I will put a
cheque in the post to you
then today, will there be someone there to sign for
it tomorrow
pete |
I replied with the following:
| Quote: | There will be someone in to receive the cheque but i
would have thought it would be cheaper/quicker for you
to drive over to Clifton.
Dan |
This was sent as we found it strange that there were neither of the above banks available near him so we rang the banks to confirm the locations for him.
I got:
And replied with:
| Quote: | Apparently there is a royal bank of scotland there,
according to our local branch anyway. The guy on the
phone said it's about 20 mins from you?
Dan |
I then got the following:
| Quote: | Lol Clifton is not 20 mins from me, it maybe in
distance but its in the
centre where there doing roadworks, the cheque has
gone in the post now
anyways special delivery |
To which i replied:
I have no idea as to how the layout of this area is, anyone else care to comment?
I then got:
| Quote: | Is there anything else you have for sale apart from
nigriceps |
To which i replied:
Are you looking for a full list or something in
particular?
And got:
| Quote: | Ful list would be good, as we have just sold a tonne
of our stock, |
The following was then sent along with a pricelist:
| Quote: | The pricelist attached is pretty much complete
although there are likely to be a few bits and bobs
missing.
Ask if i'm missing something.
Up until 01/10/06 this list is VAT free, after that
date VAT will need to be added.
Dan |
On friday 22 september i got the following:
| Quote: | Dan we have just taken todays post to the post
office to find they forgot to
give the special delivery to the postman when he
collected from the post
office, although they offered me a refund I have
told them to get it
delivered tomorrow morning, which they are doing
sorry for the numpties
pete
Pete Blake
Director
Reptile Zone
126-128 Gloucester Rd North
Filton
Bristol
BS34 7BQ
Tel no 0117 969 3013
Fax no 0117 969 3083
Email: sales@reptile-zone.co.uk
Website: www.reptile-zone.co.uk |
After finding this odd we rang the post office in filton who informed us that this was a "tall tale", unsure if he had used this post office we then proceeded to ring another 3 post offices in the area who all said they had no idea what i was talking about.
Somewhat annoyed i replied with:
| Quote: | Pete,
OK.
If your cheque does not arrive by tomorrow morning i
will sell elsewhere.
I now have to re-arrange my morning (again) to be here
for this cheque.
Dan |
I then ignored the following reply:
| Quote: | Gee ok of ocurse I control the post office, and I
contacted u as soon as I
knew but do what u wish, it is of no consequence, I
have done my best to get
you the cheque as soon as I could, |
On Saturday 23 September i replied once the cheque had arrived:
| Quote: | Pete,
I have had the cheque today, thankyou.
When ever you want to send TNT is fine by me, just
make sure i have an hour or so notice so i can pack
them.
Thanks
Dan |
The next contact was on monday 25th september when i sent:
| Quote: | Pete,
When are you going to arrange to have these Boiga
collected? I have another shipment coming in at the
end of this week and i could do with the space.
Thanks
Dan |
I got a reply on tuesday 26th september:
| Quote: | You told me to wait for the cheque to clear which is
what I have been doing |
To which i replied:
| Quote: | After the confusion over the cheques arrival I will
let the cheque clearance go and let you have the
snakes when you can arrange them to be collected
Thanks Dan. |
On wednesday 27th september i got:
| Quote: | Can I have your address for shipping and is this
afternoon ok
To which i replied:
address is:
***********************
****************
This afternoon is fine. I'll add the single male
nigriceps to the box as i thought Angie may appreciate
him.
Cheers
Dan |
To which i got:
| Quote: | | All booked for this afternoon |
Later that day i sent:
| Quote: | TNT still haven't been, i was under the impression
they had to collect by 16:00 for overnight delivery?
You may want to chase them up.
Cheers
Dan |
To which i got:
| Quote: | No they technically have till 6pm, have had this
before, and they just say
driver is out doing his rounds and its listed |
And replied with another deep and meaningfull:
Then i sent:
| Quote: | | they still havent turned up 18.05 |
Can you guess what time i sent that?
I received no further answer until thursday 28 september:
To which i replied:
| Quote: | No, apparently (according to TNT) you booked it too
late so they are going to collect today. I'll let you
know when it goes.
Dan |
We rang TNT on the wednesday night to find out why it hadn't gone.
To which i got:
| Quote: | booked it at 2pm my cut off is 3.30, you sent me
emails just before, they
told me the driver had to many pick ups |
So i replied:
| Quote: | I have repacked everything, all ready to go again.
I'll let you know when they collect.
Cheers
Dan |
Then when it had been collected on thursday 28th september i sent:
| Quote: | Ok,
On its way.
receipt note number = 660104021
Any dramas, let me know - hope Angie likes them.
Cheers
Dan |
The following day i received the following email:
| Quote: | Dan one of the boigas arrived dead, and was in
terrible condition, I cant
believe u ship a snake in that quality, if you could
see the difference in
our boigas, I wait to hear from you on what u plan
to do about it, I have
the body, and I can get a pm done if required, but
it is pretty apparent why
it died
Pete Blake
Director
Reptile Zone
126-128 Gloucester Rd North
Filton
Bristol
BS34 7BQ
Tel no 0117 969 3013
Fax no 0117 969 3083
Email: sales@reptile-zone.co.uk
Website: www.reptile-zone.co.uk |
I replied with the following:
| Quote: | Pete,
Despite what you obviously think i had no idea that
any of the animals would die any time soon. All fed
last week on house geckos. I find it strange that you
find the quality of these animals so poor after they
were seen by Jon not long ago and we agreed that they
were all in great shape.
I assume you can send me a photo of the dead animal.
While these things do happen it has to be said this is
the last thing i want or need to have happenned, i
wanted everything to run as smoothly as possible - i
would have thought you would have realised this when i
gave you the spare male nigriceps.
Which of the boiga was dead? The red drapiezi have
bred for us, and the nigriceps is far from a shy
feeder so i assume it was one of the greens?
If you let me know which one it was i will replace it
with a fresh import, i have another malaysian shipment
coming in within the next two months. Alternatively i
have the eggs cooking from the reds, you are more than
welcome to the offspring from those although i only
have 2 eggs left. If they don't hatch though i will be
happy to replace with a wc adult.
Dan |
On the same day i then got:
| Quote: | Dan
Lets just agree to disagree on this, the snakes
were very dehydrated and
drank for 15mins when arriving, sorry but I do
imports to and have had loads
of snakes by courier and I just don't believe they
were dehydrated from the
journey,
As with the nigriceps I had assumed you just wanted
shot, I don't tend to
think about that, if someone just say wot they have
done.
I would prefer a refund on the animal that arrived
dead, I have included my
bank account details below, and a pic of the dead
snake, which is a
drapezei.
Pete |
Neither account details or photo were included so i replied with:
| Quote: | No account details or photo were provided with this
email.
Giving you the nigriceps was obviously a bad idea. It
was meant to be a good will gesture after the mess
with the payment. I don't usually give away £100's
worth of animal and now know not to bother again.
I will refund £70 after receiving your bank details
and the photo.
Dan |
I then received the following:
| Quote: | Here is the picture,
I would have just rather had healthy snakes to start
with rather than some
free snake I didn’t ask for. Clearly that was
beyond what I should of
expected, like u I have learnt from this experience |
Account details and a pic were this time included. The photo was of a mangled red Boiga drapeizi.
On Monday 02 october i sent:
| Quote: | | The money has been put into your account today. |
That was the last time i heard from Peter.
I will leave this up for all to read. Giving Angie/Peter chance to make any comments about it. I will then reply with my comments on the matter later on.
_________________
TFA
The future is bright, the future is a net like pattern.................
I'm NOT an expert, so if you don't want to know my opinion don't ask!! |
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zarozinia
CaptiveBred Addict!
Joined: 25 Nov 2004
Posts: 894
Location: Lost in my own little world
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| Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 6:18 pm Post subject: |
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Dan, all you have done is waste a load of time and space in giving an account of the sales details.
The whole point is the state of the snakes. Would you care to comment on that issue?
I will contact Jon too, his name was not mentioned by me on this forum - you mentioned it, but by all means lets get his opinion. What he said to us was very different from the version given to us.
_________________
Cheers Angi
Proud to be a Geordie!
My Images - http://anginelson.deviantart.com/
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